On bans and power dynamics (1 Viewer)

[Coywolf]

isn't the topic "bans and power dynamics"?

If that is seriously all you got from that statement, I think you are out to pick a fight.

Hence the exact reason why I made it in the first place.

There is absolutely no need to have 10 fucking posts to make your point.

Maybe 'nit picking' was a bad term, how about:

"Dragging a statement out until it is bloody and unconscious to prove your point"

 

[Older Than Dirt]

Most people who post here are drive-by wanna-be "Future Oogles Of America", who can't even be bothered to use a search engine, or a map. And who will be long gone in six months, both from this site, and this life.

Then there are the traincore-pros, crust-lords, permanent world-travelers, and old heads, who actually know the answers to all the questions the youngsters need to know the answers to, and who stick around and help the kids out, until they get banned, or bored.

This is the group that is more likely to notice shit they think could be better, and also more likely to care enough to post about it, and also more likely to have enough sand to stick up for what's right in their minds.

One thing a mod/owner could do in response to this thread is: Get mad at folks who care enough about this place to put in the time to try to make it better, and call them "nit-pickers", "rules-lawyers", "people that just complain", etc.

Another thing that person could do is go "What an amazing thing we've made! How cool that people care enough about it to argue with us about how to run it!"

 

[Deleted member 125]

Most people who post here are drive-by wanna-be "Future Oogles Of America", who can't even be bothered to use a search engine, or a map. And who will be long gone in six months, both from this site, and this life.

Then there are the traincore-pros, crust-lords, permanent world-travelers, and old heads, who actually know the answers to all the questions the youngsters need to know the answers to, and who stick around and help the kids out, until they get banned, or bored.

This is the group that is more likely to notice shit they think could be better, and also more likely to care enough to post about it, and also more likely to have enough sand to stick up for what's right in their minds.

One thing a mod/owner could do in response to this thread is: Get mad at folks who care enough about this place to put in the time to try to make it better, and call them "nit-pickers", "rules-lawyers", "people that just complain", etc.

Another thing that person could do is go "What an amazing thing we've made! How cool that people care enough about it to argue with us about how to run it!"

Thank you again for the opinion. Without you spearheading this revolution on stp, it simply would not be possible. You are a hero, a scholar, and a gentleman. It is within my power to grant you a custom title for all yer hard work striving to make yer stp dream become reality. What will thou choose?

It is solely based on yer neverending quest to better stp, that staff has been diligently working to make this idea a reality. Shit doesnt happen over night unfortunately ya know?

We heard what the few people who replied to this thread had to say, we really did, and for real thanks for the ideas yall. if its something that can be implemented easily and we can figure out how to make it happen then cool right on everyone would be given a heads up about it.

 

[Older Than Dirt]

@SlankyLanky - jesus h. fuck are you ever an asshole. What a way to reply to my post.

 

[Faceplant]

Hey, you guys: I like all of you, for one reason or another, regardless of any labels or categories.

Please, take a breath and back off from mud-slinging, I don’t wanna see any more of us banned. There are good suggestions expressed from all sides, backed by good reasoning. I am sure that Matt and mods will in good faith, try to make changes, if they can be made simply, not further complicating their lives. Cheers.

 

[roughdraft]

If that is seriously all you got from that statement, I think you are out to pick a fight.

Hence the exact reason why I made it in the first place.

There is absolutely no need to have 10 fucking posts to make your point.

Maybe 'nit picking' was a bad term, how about:

"Dragging a statement out until it is bloody and unconscious to prove your point"

I am confident in not being out to pick a fight, I don't expect making a counterpoint to necessarily bring a fight. There's a difference between a discussion and that. Finally, I don't see how I could have been more polite in the post I made.

I thought you were tryin to shut @Older Than Dirt down when he wasn't even off-topic, which comes across to me as actually aggressive/fight-picking/whatever you want to call it, as well as... sorry... incompetent.

Nothing personal, it just really bothered me for these reasons. and here you had to use hyperbole to justify your point, about his "ten posts" or maybe it'd be more accurate to say it was "moving the goalposts", so now he wasn't off-topic, just beating a deadhorse. It's a mark of decent character to admit when one is wrong. I mean who am I to say it, but I will, a little more humility would go a long way around here.

It seems everybody has their opinion which is normal, but damn do people just dig their heels in and make excuses to not give anyone else's take a fair chance, and how nasty most of the admin chooses to be - plus all the excuses that get made instead of owning their own words. That's a lot to do with power dynamics as well.

 

[Deleted member 125]

We heard what the few people who replied to this thread had to say, we really did, and for real thanks for the ideas yall. if its something that can be implemented easily and we can figure out how to make it happen then cool right on everyone would be given a heads up about it.

Is this not crystal clear that yall have been heard? I'm being serious here, just cause I'm apparently not alone in not wanting to pointlessly argue back and forth with @Older Than Dirt doesnt mean anyone's being silenced. Yall are heard. If it was anyone's intention to silence people we wouldn't have this suggestion area right? We get it, and its something that staff has already been discussing.

 

[Matt Derrick]

just to bring some perspective here, I would like to remind everyone that all this drama and arguing and disagreement and finger pointing is all over less than one percent of the community and the actions taken against them. no one is in a war against anyone else, and most of the people that are perceiving themselves as being persecuted (or persecuted on behalf of people that have been banned) simply disagree with the staff and apparently are content to complain about it until they are blue in the face.

I am sorry that it is considered "nit-picking" and "rules-lawyering", and somehow bad/wrong/disruptive, to quote the reason that Matt gave for banning Juan.

the problem with your 'argument' is that you continually, over and over again, cherry pick the phrase that will boost your side the most and throw away the rest. again, a very lawyer-y tactic. "but matt, im just quoting exactly what you said!" yeah, you are, and you're still ignoring everything else in that post and you're doing it on purpose, despite that fact that i've pointed it out several times.

so at this point consider your point made, although i'll bet 100 dollars you can't keep yourself from having the last word.

to everyone else, your opinions have been noted, and we'll give the poll thing a try. if you don't have something to share that contributes to this disucssion or just rehashes what you've already stated, i'm going to issue you a warning for posting spam.

 

[MFB]

On having a poll on banning members;

I think it comes down to the question
does Matt and Staff want STP to have the "our house" mentality or would Matt and staff prefer more of a community mentality here?

If its the former, keep things the way the are. I have no complaints. Plain and simple, I enjoy this site, and think it's you right to have a vision for it; you built it! But I will say I feel like users will be missing out.

If Matt and Staff would like to have more of a community vibe here I like the idea of users policing each other more.
Users should use the ratings more. And should be encouraged to do so.
And I think users should give shitty/negative ratings posts they think are bad more without it being a big deal or an implied attempt to start beef with someone. If you think a post sucks, mark it that way; friend or not. It's cool.
I think a good way about to go about the banning process is something like this;
If a user gets 3 shit ratings on a post; the post gets deleted
if a user gets 3 deleted posts they get tossed up for getting voted off the island.
Whoever votes, votes, no qualifications. Straight popular vote.
In this scenario the community decides what sort of content it gets to read.
I like this idea. And think its as fair as can be.

I understand the ideas of community and Matts vision can dichotomic.
I understand how that can be frustrating for Matt and the Mods.
I understand how some users are obnoxious.
But that's community! and that's the great thing about it! There's a lot of differences to navigate.
Like, OTD in this thread is in my opinion being obnoxious about arguing. But I've also really loved and learned a ton from OTD's content and have chatted with him and love him being around.
That's community.

Not picking on you OTD! That was just the closest example.

Or, reading through this thread, @Odin 's posts were deleted.
I expanded them and really enjoyed reading them.
This is were I like the idea of community giving ratings on shit posts rather than mods deleting stuff.

I think sometimes the staff thinks certain members are taking the piss with posts.
Which, speaking for myself, isnt the case,
Its more a matter of users making connections and becoming friends.
by making jokes or posting ideas that may not be on topic.
Personally, that's a big reason why I am here.

Anyhow, that's my rant on this. Take it as you will.

 

[Deleted member 24782]

On butts and power bottoms...

Makes a lot of sense to do a poll for banning, but then you realize that nobody really uses the poll/voting feature. I mean historically look at the old polls, I mean 5, 10, 20 votes max among a community of thousands? WOW POWER TO THE PEOPLE WITH AN EXTRA BIG FIST. Nobody gives as shit.

 

[Deleted member 125]

On butts and power bottoms...

Makes a lot of sense to do a poll for banning, but then you realize that nobody really uses the poll/voting feature. I mean historically look at the old polls, I mean 5, 10, 20 votes max among a community of thousands? WOW POWER TO THE PEOPLE WITH AN EXTRA BIG FIST. Nobody gives as shit.

This is in a way very true. It's difficult to get a gauge of what exactly the community really wants when this thread has only responses from a few people one of which has just a tiny history of not exactly being thrilled with any decision staff seems to make. So it's kinda a small pool atm. A small pool with a turd floating in it.

Theres no way to please everyone, there just isnt, but if we give this a try shit right on I hope it works out cause that means less work Id have to put into a website where a few folks think I'm a power hungry asshole haha.

 

[Faceplant]

a few folks think I'm a power hungry asshole haha.

POLL?


love ya, buddy

 

[Matt Derrick]

I feel like this thread has reached the end of it's usefulness so I'm closing it and taking the two most productive ideas and putting them into new threads:

Let members remove or promote content based on post ratings | Squat the Planet

So despite a lot of bullshit drama, two things were produced from this thread: https://squattheplanet.com/threads/on-bans-and-power-dynamics.40825/ First, is that we should look into giving people power to promote or smite posts using the post rating system. This can definitely be...

squattheplanet.com

and

Let users overturn account bans with a 2/3rd majority | Squat the Planet

So one of the good arguments to come out of this thread was giving users the ability to overturn a ban handed down by the staff with a poll that would be placed in the den of the banned thread with the details of why the user was banned. As stated in the title, the poll would have two options a...

squattheplanet.com