Punks and Marriage

i agree with mouse. in my general opinion, divorce is EXPENSIVE!! I have never been married, and in all honesty, don't believe in it & don't plan on it. unless in certain situations, ex. health issues - then get married for the insurance. the ONLY marriage I have ever seen work was my great grandparents, married for 62 years! my thoughts on that was that it was an 'old love' type thing. the kind you see in old movies and such, but never in real life.. they had something that i have never seen in another couple. all in all - why pay for a piece of paper to say that you are in love or are happy?? if you're happy and your half is happy, why complicate things with money and paper trails? haha, anyway
 
I'm going to agree with Mouse on this too...a marriage license is nothing more than legal bonding. If you look at it from the ceremonial aspect, at the rate people are getting married and divorced, it must not be at all as "sacred" as it's made out to be, if people are so willing to throw out their marriage to fuck their secretaries or whatever. If you love someone, being legally married doesn't even really matter. You can add people to your bank account anytime! The rings, dresses, all that jazz should just be trivial in the end. It's got to be more than that.
 
Me and my wife had a gutter punk wedding in s.f on haight street it was crazy ,for me marriage is for leagle reasons i.e if i was in a coma and im pretty shure your wife cant testify against you
 
Me and my boyfriend are "married" we had a ceremony in a treehouse at a drum circle it was AWESOME and I love being married :)
 
Marriage,
Well, I married a gutter punk going on 8 years ago. I would say if a person is young, go out and fuck your brains out.

Responsibility:
Well, if your idea of responsibility is panhandling up the next 40 then I guess you're not ready for marriage. First you have to accept responsibility for yourself and find legal ways to do things, then you might you might be able to find somebody you can work with to do even more things.

This isn't only about marriage. This is about kids on this site, etc. etc. You want to be an anarchist. You don't want to deal with money. You don't want to deal with any type of responsibility. Okay, tear down the system. Then? Who's garbage cans are you going to eat out of? Who's spare change are you going to buy beer with? Who is going to deal with the Really BAD shit in life, when some mother fucker does deserve a bullet in the brain? you going to shoot 'em?

I hear a lot of "Bad" about established things, govt. marriage, laws, whatever.

And I'm married and I'm older and here are a few of the other reasons.

not to insult people like widerstand or matt, but I've spent more time on the road than most people on this site have been alive. and I've led a real hard life. How about survivors benefits for my kids easily instead of my widow having to fight for five years to get em. How about an easy transfer of property if I die too soon. Yes, as you get older you tend to acquire more than a tent and a back pack.

I have yet in my life seen anyone propose something to replace the govt. and system we all live in that would be sustainable. Therefore, unless some rocket surgeon comes along and all of a suddenly comes up with some new and interesting crap for everyone to do, I think we're going to be living in this type of system for a long time. In other words, utilize this system to work for your advantage and change what little things you can. If everyone starts to change itty bitty things, maybe something can happen.

You know when I was a kid in Texas, they'd put you in jail for 3 years over a fucking joint. Now, essentially in the West it's quazi legal, and California is voting on full legalization in Nov.

Logan
 
jon said:
Hey it worked for me so far, so far being almost 18 years...

got married in a shitty apartment over a couple bottles of $8 wine (that was the good stuff) about 2 months after meeting my wife. Next day went around telling everyone we were married. Thought we were in a common law state and thought that was about all it took, maybe we were maybe it was, though I'm less sure now. But what the fuck ever, it's a personal commitment nothing to do with religions or states for me.

Did it help? Did it matter? Dunno, might have helped through some of the shittier times, or maybe we would have been just as stubborn and bloody mined about staying together any way, I certainly credit the joint stubborness & bloody minededness for the longevity of the relationship and certainly the start of the marriage, I proposed, some what jokingly, over some fine garlic bread she'd cooked up and she, somewhat jokingly accepted. 18 years and two kids and ALOT of shit later neither of us has backed down, so far as I know we both currently think this is a good thing.

That's the short version of my Punk Rock Love Story.
Click to expand...

i just wanted to say that i think this is one of the more romantic stories. not romantic in a cheezy way, but in a way that's real and means something in the long run.
 
Awesome, civil discussion guys. Me likes such a thread.

I see marriage as not just the binding of two people who like each other, but two people who love each other, and want to do so for the rest of their lives. In this sense, loving is the promise to pursue that person for as long as you live. Perhaps it's a bit idealistic, but ideals are good. I believe we are better as individuals when we learn to serve each other, instead of only expecting things to each other. I do not deny that some pretty devilish things come into play a few years after marriage. The divorce rate is incredibly high, making marriage look like a sham. I'd prefer to blame several things, rather than the concept of marriage: 1) people who do not analyze the feasibility of life-long marriage with a certain person, for example a nice sweet person may not be heading the same way as you in life, so what chances does it have of lasting?; 2) Marriage is seen as some sort of validation into adulthood. We should make stronger efforts to uphold singles in our society.

Personally, I love kids, and I want to find a life-long lover to adopt some kids with. And marriage? My Christian view, which is not the standard Christian view perhaps, is that the marriage lies in the confession to family, friends, and your community, not the legal documents. I'm not so concerned about the legal registration of the marriage, as having a wedding including the people in my life and those of my wife. I think it's a good think to show the people who care about us two that we're making a commitment not fuck each other over. This is a very collectivistic approach to relationships, especially in comparison to the no-ties way that most people do it. But I think love is serving, from the top to the bottom. As far as legal registration, I think I'd do it because it's easier. I'd let my wife choose to take my last name or keep her last name, that's up to her. I enjoy thinking about my ideal wedding, because of all things I would do to turn it from a boring, dry-ass ritual to an awesome party.

Interesting fact: Thought I love kids and families, I have never seriously dated a girl; or kissed on, etc, etc. The ones I like don't like me, and the ones who like me, I don't dig at all. Additionally, I have seriously problems with couples who lose their zest for life by settling down. I fear getting into a relationship with someone who's not heading in the same direction as me, because I can totally understand how certain factors can work against the one-honest commitment to stay with that person through thick and thin. But I still believe that marriage can create synergy; we can help each other be who we want to be. I can handle people changing, but I've considered what it would be like to live with someone who was 0% who they were when you committed yourselves. And I can't say I won't lose my mind and get a divorce in the future, just that I don't want to marry so soon -- or get into a boring relationship --and that when I do, I want it to be a life thing full of challenges and renewal. For now, I'm enjoying the final let-up of my families expectations to find a girl get married and pump out some kids ASAP. I'm in the clear.

I'm young (26), love-inexperienced, and idealistic. Please read me as such.
 
i've always been against marriage. it was from a time when the average life expectancy was 35 and we needed people to stay together so that the kids could be brought up in a dangerous world.
none of that is true now. times have changed and so must marriage.
 
logan714 said:
Marriage,
Well, I married a gutter punk going on 8 years ago. I would say if a person is young, go out and fuck your brains out.

Responsibility:
Well, if your idea of responsibility is panhandling up the next 40 then I guess you're not ready for marriage. First you have to accept responsibility for yourself and find legal ways to do things, then you might you might be able to find somebody you can work with to do even more things.

This isn't only about marriage. This is about kids on this site, etc. etc. You want to be an anarchist. You don't want to deal with money. You don't want to deal with any type of responsibility. Okay, tear down the system. Then? Who's garbage cans are you going to eat out of? Who's spare change are you going to buy beer with? Who is going to deal with the Really BAD shit in life, when some mother fucker does deserve a bullet in the brain? you going to shoot 'em?

I hear a lot of "Bad" about established things, govt. marriage, laws, whatever.

And I'm married and I'm older and here are a few of the other reasons.

not to insult people like widerstand or matt, but I've spent more time on the road than most people on this site have been alive. and I've led a real hard life. How about survivors benefits for my kids easily instead of my widow having to fight for five years to get em. How about an easy transfer of property if I die too soon. Yes, as you get older you tend to acquire more than a tent and a back pack.

I have yet in my life seen anyone propose something to replace the govt. and system we all live in that would be sustainable. Therefore, unless some rocket surgeon comes along and all of a suddenly comes up with some new and interesting crap for everyone to do, I think we're going to be living in this type of system for a long time. In other words, utilize this system to work for your advantage and change what little things you can. If everyone starts to change itty bitty things, maybe something can happen.

You know when I was a kid in Texas, they'd put you in jail for 3 years over a fucking joint. Now, essentially in the West it's quazi legal, and California is voting on full legalization in Nov.

Logan
Click to expand...

good point...
but everyone has different success stories.
this is why the world is relatively diverse.
 
My husband and I got legally married mainly for the legal benefits. We knew we were inlove and we knew we weren't going anywhere, and that we didn't need to prove that to anyone. But (as an example) what would happen if one of us ended up in the hospital? Most hospitals only allow immediate family members to visit. If it's not on paper, they don't give a shit how much you love someone or how long you've been together.
 
Mouse said:
the only thing that really hurt was when people would ask me if we were legally married and I'd say No they'd be like "oh, well, it doesn't count then" and brush it off. Sorry, fuckers, but it sure as hell counted TO ME otherwise I wouldn't have done it. Just cuz you don't sign a piece of paper doesn't mean it means nothing
Click to expand...


i know what you mean i hate that so much i just gave birth to our daughter and they didnt put him down as my husband...that broke my heart...
 
Marriage is about ownership, imo.

You can say it's good for getting in on the healthcare of you partner, or that it's a contract for immigration purposes, but it's just a tool to give one person power over another.

Forget that. No one owns me or will have me stay with them solely so I can keep my healthcare or become a citizen of wherever. I can do that on my own. Any partner of mine would be able to do it on his own too, and we'd be together out of mutual respect and love, not because we signed a contract.
 
The whole act of what a typical wedding consist of is Pagan. It simply comes down to symbology. The government just twisted it to become a "legal" matter. AND buying your girl a diamond ring is exploiting Africans. They die miserable deaths, starving, dehyrdration, sun stroke, etc. for your girls 24 karat diamond so she can look more "loved" or "rich" it disgusts me. Fucking pathetic. I love that Mouse could overcome that persons negative imput. Right on, girl! Marriage only matters to those who do it. I'm comtemplating "marrying" my boyfriend. I don't believe in "divorce" either.
 
It totally depends on the people and what exactly they want/are comfortable with. I haven't been married for very long, but it's been a very good, positive experience for me. It works for us because we're just so fucking compatible and want the same things in life. I would have stayed with him for life regardless, but I got married mainly because I knew I had met the person I wanted to make my life with (and vice versa), and because of the benefits that follow with marriage, such as if one of us gets seriously sick and ends up in the hospital, the other can be there in the room. This came in very handy when I had a staph infection in my kidney about a month ago and was in the hospital for a while.

I also don't believe you have to be with someone for a super long time in order for marriage to work out. I think it depends on how well you know yourself and what you want. My mom married my step dad after having only been dating him 2 months, and they're STILL together now 13 years later and extremely happy. There's no rules on how long a person should wait to get married, because everyone is different.

EDIT: Shit, I just realized I had posted to this thread a couple months ago! XD Ah well, what I say still stands.
 
ok.... here's the deal: if you are to get married, you do it for one and for one reason only: because you love that person. Forget about the rest of the technicalities.... If you really want to be with that one person forever and ever, go for it. I personally tried it 3x, first ended when Leslie killed herself, 2nd ended when Gina dumped me without warning, 3rd ended when 'graven' decided it was time to go. It's cool, it's all good - needless to say - there won't be a 4th..........
 
now... that being said, if it ain't working and you see it ain't working, the best thing to do is break it off and set her free. Thats what I just had to do. It was terrible, I was very very broken up about it - but when I saw how happy she was about moving to Seattle (with new man out there already) I saw that I had no other choice than to do so. When we love someone, we must set them free...
 
i think i would do this with the "right person" if it seemed like the legal technicalities worked in our favor... otherwise what is the point?
 
I'm sort of conflicted about this whole issue..

I couldn't ever get legally married; my parents were married. In fact, it was my Dad's 3rd marriage and my Mum's 2nd, and they couldn't legally get married until I was 2 and half because Dad's divorce wasn't finalized from his 2nd marriage yet. Now he's working on marriage number 4 and I don't know if I can ever forgive my mother for staying with an abusive dickwad who hurt her kids just because he was her "husband".

At the same time, though, I can recognize that co-operation and community are perhaps humanity's only saving graces. By working together, through love, trust, and loyalty, we can achieve things that we could never make or do on our own. I value bonds of love and friendship, and although I'm terrified and repulsed by the idea of making a commitment "for life" I would be happy to make a more short-term commitment. This doesn't mean that I abhor responsibility, it just means that I'm realistic about the prospect of two people being compatible and STAYING compatible for multiple decades.

Far from decrying commitment, I merely believe that we need to take a more realistic view at how feasible a life-long commitment is in a time when people are living many times longer than they have in the past. Expecting two people who love each other to remain totally monogamous and devoted to each other for life, for 40, 50, 0r 60 years, is the reason why so many marriages end in divorce. There is so much pressure on people to have that fairytale 'happily ever after' that we live in a society that belittles non-government sanctioned unions instead of cherishing that instinct in ourselves that tells us occasionally to compromise our own happiness for the sake of the people we love. We should rejoice in our humanity rather than berating people for failing to live up to a nearly impossible standard.

As to the whole wedding ceremony; I've always been disgusted at how much money people are willing to throw away and how much of a ridiculous spectacle people are willing to turn something as intimate as a commitment ceremony into. I never want a legal or monogamous marriage, and I would leave anyone who tried to give me a diamond.
 
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